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	<title>Comments on: On the Human Drive for Fame and Immortality</title>
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	<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/</link>
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		<title>By: Yana Davis</title>
		<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/comment-page-1/#comment-2900</link>
		<dc:creator>Yana Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m not sure. Those venues are certainly places where people ignored by mainstream entertainment and news media can become famous, and in the case of American Idol, even become rich.

The kind of unsung, value-creating activities I mentioned in my previous post do not easily lend themselves to any of those venues, and my guess is that those involved in those unsung actions are typically not given over to self-promotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure. Those venues are certainly places where people ignored by mainstream entertainment and news media can become famous, and in the case of American Idol, even become rich.</p>
<p>The kind of unsung, value-creating activities I mentioned in my previous post do not easily lend themselves to any of those venues, and my guess is that those involved in those unsung actions are typically not given over to self-promotion.</p>
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		<title>By: Glynn Wilson</title>
		<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/comment-page-1/#comment-2899</link>
		<dc:creator>Glynn Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.locustfork.net/?p=3658#comment-2899</guid>
		<description>So what does that say about the Facebook, Twitter and American Idol phenomena?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what does that say about the Facebook, Twitter and American Idol phenomena?</p>
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		<title>By: Yana Davis</title>
		<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/comment-page-1/#comment-2898</link>
		<dc:creator>Yana Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.locustfork.net/?p=3658#comment-2898</guid>
		<description>The &quot;human&quot; drive for fame and immortality may be more a product of culture than genetics, although there are certainly sound arguments to be made for both positions.

Monotheistic religion, which is the cultural base for much of the world, assumes an outside higher power or superior being. This power is defined as a kind of superhuman, with many if not all of the attributes of ordinary humans, save that it has unlimited power, knowledge and prerogative. The Star Trek Next Generation series had a recurring superhuman, nearly godlike character called Q who was a great case study in why it would likely be cosmically disastrous if such a being or beings exist.

Wanting things to stay the same forever, one expression of this cultural imperative, along with wanting to control and use as much of everything and everyone else as possible, fuel much, if not all, of what is wrong with human interaction today and all the complex, and debilitating, relationships and institutions in today&#039;s world.

There are no sane justifications for war, for sacrificing the welfare of coming generations on behalf of excess by the present one, or for sacrifice of even a single human life for some other, allegedly greater, purpose.

True immortality seems to me to rather be living in such a way that one creates true value for self and others. There are people who have lived that way -- Gandhi and King in recent times come to mind -- and people who are living that way now. But they are still a small minority in the world.

These true humanists are fighting the often lonely, and mostly unreported struggle day in and day out to show that a humanistic society is possible and that indeed, it is the only realistic hope for humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;human&#8221; drive for fame and immortality may be more a product of culture than genetics, although there are certainly sound arguments to be made for both positions.</p>
<p>Monotheistic religion, which is the cultural base for much of the world, assumes an outside higher power or superior being. This power is defined as a kind of superhuman, with many if not all of the attributes of ordinary humans, save that it has unlimited power, knowledge and prerogative. The Star Trek Next Generation series had a recurring superhuman, nearly godlike character called Q who was a great case study in why it would likely be cosmically disastrous if such a being or beings exist.</p>
<p>Wanting things to stay the same forever, one expression of this cultural imperative, along with wanting to control and use as much of everything and everyone else as possible, fuel much, if not all, of what is wrong with human interaction today and all the complex, and debilitating, relationships and institutions in today&#8217;s world.</p>
<p>There are no sane justifications for war, for sacrificing the welfare of coming generations on behalf of excess by the present one, or for sacrifice of even a single human life for some other, allegedly greater, purpose.</p>
<p>True immortality seems to me to rather be living in such a way that one creates true value for self and others. There are people who have lived that way &#8212; Gandhi and King in recent times come to mind &#8212; and people who are living that way now. But they are still a small minority in the world.</p>
<p>These true humanists are fighting the often lonely, and mostly unreported struggle day in and day out to show that a humanistic society is possible and that indeed, it is the only realistic hope for humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Glynn Wilson</title>
		<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/comment-page-1/#comment-2897</link>
		<dc:creator>Glynn Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.locustfork.net/?p=3658#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>Not sure what you are not convinced about since you didn&#039;t read the article, by that I assume you mean the column, or any of the linked articles?

This is the core statement and it comes from Psychology, not historians or anthropologists.

The immortality drive is the major driving force behind human nature.

Are you saying there is no such drive? In a blog comment from a Facebook post? : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what you are not convinced about since you didn&#8217;t read the article, by that I assume you mean the column, or any of the linked articles?</p>
<p>This is the core statement and it comes from Psychology, not historians or anthropologists.</p>
<p>The immortality drive is the major driving force behind human nature.</p>
<p>Are you saying there is no such drive? In a blog comment from a Facebook post? : )</p>
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		<title>By: John Webb</title>
		<link>http://blog.locustfork.net/2009/05/on-the-human-drive-for-fame-and-immortality/comment-page-1/#comment-2896</link>
		<dc:creator>John Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 23:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.locustfork.net/?p=3658#comment-2896</guid>
		<description>This argument could be a form of anachronism: projecting the present into the past.  I&#039;m not sure that good historians or anthropologists would take this research at face value.  It ignores the fact that art, e.g., developed in pre-literate cultures.  It seems to assume that fame must be global or at least continental or national to be fame.  The pyramids, Maya and later tribal ruins in Mexico and Central America, Mound Builder culture in the US, many prehistoric monuments in the British Isles, etc.  One could object that these were all non-secular, but the argument begs the question that secular humanism is not a form of religion.  It also is only relatively true that communication was limited to the speed of humans: the discovery of the wheel and the domestication of horses, e.g., and the use of smoke signals, signal fires, and carrier pigeons seem of ancient origin.  The notion of narcissism is at least as old as the Greeks.  The development of games and athletic competitions seem to be as old as society.  Fame in one&#039;s village in 3000 BC for being the best wrestler, spear thrower, carver, baker,etc., may have been just as important in its culture as they are today on a larger scale.  A great deal of fame was not transmitted, of course.  But having spent my life and career in the information age, I have some evidence that technology may be making the problem worse, not better.  Information has always had an important property--it flows.  We are losing much more information today than ever because of the speed of the outdating of technologies.  A huge amount of research and a number of practices such as the Internet Archive are trying to discover how to transfer information to new technologies losslessly.  We aren&#039;t there yet.  You can still buy turntables new, but not 8-track tape decks.  No 5.25 inch disk drive connected to a computer with the CP/M operating system, which was widely used before the IBM PC, exists today outside museums and a few preservation labs.  The CD will disappear much faster than the LP.  The fame suggested in the Harvard research exists on fragile media, much more fragile than stone tablets.  I didn&#039;t read the article, but I&#039;ve seen others like it, and I&#039;m not convinced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This argument could be a form of anachronism: projecting the present into the past.  I&#8217;m not sure that good historians or anthropologists would take this research at face value.  It ignores the fact that art, e.g., developed in pre-literate cultures.  It seems to assume that fame must be global or at least continental or national to be fame.  The pyramids, Maya and later tribal ruins in Mexico and Central America, Mound Builder culture in the US, many prehistoric monuments in the British Isles, etc.  One could object that these were all non-secular, but the argument begs the question that secular humanism is not a form of religion.  It also is only relatively true that communication was limited to the speed of humans: the discovery of the wheel and the domestication of horses, e.g., and the use of smoke signals, signal fires, and carrier pigeons seem of ancient origin.  The notion of narcissism is at least as old as the Greeks.  The development of games and athletic competitions seem to be as old as society.  Fame in one&#8217;s village in 3000 BC for being the best wrestler, spear thrower, carver, baker,etc., may have been just as important in its culture as they are today on a larger scale.  A great deal of fame was not transmitted, of course.  But having spent my life and career in the information age, I have some evidence that technology may be making the problem worse, not better.  Information has always had an important property&#8211;it flows.  We are losing much more information today than ever because of the speed of the outdating of technologies.  A huge amount of research and a number of practices such as the Internet Archive are trying to discover how to transfer information to new technologies losslessly.  We aren&#8217;t there yet.  You can still buy turntables new, but not 8-track tape decks.  No 5.25 inch disk drive connected to a computer with the CP/M operating system, which was widely used before the IBM PC, exists today outside museums and a few preservation labs.  The CD will disappear much faster than the LP.  The fame suggested in the Harvard research exists on fragile media, much more fragile than stone tablets.  I didn&#8217;t read the article, but I&#8217;ve seen others like it, and I&#8217;m not convinced.</p>
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